Is Windows declining ?

[johnnyb]

One of the reasons Metro doesn't work on tables as well as phones is because tablets aren't limited by screen space, where as the phones are. Metro delivers info in a compact space, and when all the words appear on a Metro tablet, it just doesn't look right

I like the idea of tiles on a tablet. If they were to do it right, it could be very intuitive and crazy useful.

[techblitz]

I like the idea of tiles on a tablet. If they were to do it right, it could be very intuitive and crazy useful.

Well of course, Tiles are useful! If they limited ARM tablets to just Metro, then all my fears would be put aside. But then Microsoft couldn't market it as Windows. It's quite the kerfuffle- and I mean kerfuffle*
*kerfuffle is an amazing word that shouldn't be taken lightly

[slack]

I like the idea of tiles on a tablet. If they were to do it right, it could be very intuitive and crazy useful.

Seeing that Nokia Rumored Tablet would actually fit the Metro really nice. I'm a huge Metro fan and will continue to enjoy it, i'll wait to see how the Release Preview in June will be, hopefully a bit better layout than it is in the consumer preview.

I do agree with the whole iPhone slide to unlock feature (Which Apple patented lol) it's not intuitive at all, and the reason Microsoft has to slide up for Windows is because Apple is side to side patented

[AElephants]

Excellently put Exactly my thoughts on the desktop...
Looks slightly awkward to have way too many tiles on the desktop screen...
does not create the same impact it creates on the Mobile screen !!!

Thankye! GMTA!

[AElephants]

The BRILLIANCE of metro is that is an OS designed specifically for phones. Apple and Android took the traditional desktop icons & wallpaper that every desktop has used since at least the 90s, and tried to shrink the exact same format down and mash it into a 3.5 inch screen. The designers of Metro were the first to realize that that's the completely wrong approach. So they designed a OS specifically for a phone. Dropped the desktop background, made icons into larger, easier to read tiles, that now have room to carry live updated information.

I'm sure the format will be great for tablets too. But in trying to apply metro to desktops with 8, I think Microsoft is making the exact same mistake in reverse. Instead of trying to cram a desktop format into a phone, theyre trying to stretch a phone format to fill a desktop. Instead of trying to fill the whole screen with the live tiles, they should have KEPT them in two columns that scroll vertically on the left side of the screen -- like a start menu. let people keep their wallpaper, then there wouldnt be any NEED for people to switch back and forth between metro & desktop mode. These people really need to hire me.

UNFORTUNATELY, this is also one of WP's biggest obstacles to more sales. People HAVE had wallpaper & icons FOREVER. Theyve never had a computer or device without them. They like their wallpaper! NO, people LOVE their wallpaper, and so Metro is a HUGE, SCARY change for them -- and they dont even know WHY! they just pick it up, look at it, and know subconsciously that something is very different and doesn't feel right. CHange makes people uncomfortable unless you explain WHY you changed it, and why its BETTER this way, they are likely to say no without ever even knowing what it was they didnt like. Did I mention they really should hire me?

[techblitz]

UNFORTUNATELY, this is also one of WP's biggest obstacles to more sales. People HAVE had wallpaper & icons FOREVER. Theyve never had a computer or device without them. They like their wallpaper! NO, people LOVE their wallpaper, and so Metro is a HUGE, SCARY change for them -- and they dont even know WHY! they just pick it up, look at it, and know subconsciously that something is very different and doesn't feel right. CHange makes people uncomfortable unless you explain WHY you changed it, and why its BETTER this way, they are likely to say no without ever even knowing what it was they didnt like. Did I mention they really should hire me?

Well that's why their trying to get the word out on Metro now. Plus, Metro on Windows 8 will allow you to use a wallpaper, so there will be a degree of personalization there that could ease users into Metro

[AElephants]

There's a semblance of a wallpaper left on WP too, with the unlock screen, and the backgrounds in Hubs...but they never show the unlock screen. I remember when iphone 2 came out, and everyone ooohed and ahhhed at the first ads which showed that gorgeous high def pic of the clown fish in the anemone http://www.innovationsinnewspapers.c...5/iphone_2.jpg with the overlaying Time and "Slide to unlock". There was a big gorgeous "wallpaper" on a phone! People immediately loved the unlock screen, cus it was a stunning "wallpaper" pic, on a phone.

Intuitive my big shiny metal butt! "Slide to Unlock" is not intuitive! That's instructions! Intuitive is that tiny little playful bounce that WP unlock screen does, showing a peek of something behind. That tells you to slide up without saying a WORD. The start screen, with the tiles set down, showing black space at the top tells the user, intuitively, there is nothing above, while the tiles at the bottom are cut off, and bleed off the screen, which tells the user that there is more to be seen below, so that's the way to move the screen -- intuitively, without a word.

Everyone knows WP has tiles. Not everyone is clear that they have live, updating information, because the ads dont show that enough. And hardly anyone knows that WP has a gorgeous unlock screen that has updating information, and makes the coolest little bounce -- cus they dont show it.

le sigh....

[techblitz]

There's a semblance of a wallpaper left on WP too, with the unlock screen, and the backgrounds in Hubs...but they never show the unlock screen. I remember when iphone 2 came out, and everyone ooohed and ahhhed at the first ads which showed that gorgeous high def pic of the clown fish in the anemone http://www.innovationsinnewspapers.c...5/iphone_2.jpg with the overlaying Time and "Slide to unlock". There was a big gorgeous "wallpaper" on a phone! People immediately loved the unlock screen, cus it was a stunning "wallpaper" pic, on a phone.

Intuitive my big shiny metal butt! "Slide to Unlock" is not intuitive! That's instructions! Intuitive is that tiny little playful bounce that WP unlock screen does, showing a peek of something behind. That tells you to slide up without saying a WORD. The start screen, with the tiles set down, showing black space at the top tells the user, intuitively, there is nothing above, while the tiles at the bottom are cut off, and bleed off the screen, which tells the user that there is more to be seen below, so that's the way to move the screen -- intuitively, without a word.

Everyone knows WP has tiles. Not everyone is clear that they have live, updating information, because the ads dont show that enough. And hardly anyone knows that WP has a gorgeous unlock screen that has updating information, and makes the coolest little bounce -- cus they dont show it.

le sigh....

I don't think Microsoft needs to advertise the unlock screen, as it's a guaranteed standard of almost any smartphone these days. I agree that Windows Phone's unlock screen is more intuitive than the iPhones, but I'd say in terms of learning curve, the iPhone beats Windows Phone; people just pick it up and know how to use it. However, Windows Phone needs a fair bit of tutorial, but once the users learn, I'd say it's definitely the better operating UI of the two.
As for everyone knowing that Windows Phone has tiles: some people don't even know Windows Phone exists! That's where you and I agree- Tiles are infinitely better than static icons, and Microsoft should market them more!

[AElephants]

I don't think Microsoft needs to advertise the unlock screen, as it's a guaranteed standard of almost any smartphone these days. I agree that Windows Phone's unlock screen is more intuitive than the iPhones, but I'd say in terms of learning curve, the iPhone beats Windows Phone; people just pick it up and know how to use it. However, Windows Phone needs a fair bit of tutorial, but once the users learn, I'd say it's definitely the better operating UI of the two.
As for everyone knowing that Windows Phone has tiles: some people don't even know Windows Phone exists! That's where you and I agree- Tiles are infinitely better than static icons, and Microsoft should market them more!

I'm not saying Microsoft needs to say, "hey, look! we have an unlock screen!" I'm saying Microsoft needs to say, "hey, dont panic!!! we still have a place for your beautiful wallpaper that you're addicted to! Youre not going cold turkey! We're not putting you in rehab! Windows Phone still has it!

But you would not know that from ANY commercial Ive seen for WP -- what the commercials show is tiles, tiles tiles and only tiles (and at the same time doing a HORRIBLE job of showing what is so cool about live tiles, that they show RT updated info without even opening an app).

People whose only exposure to Windows Phone is through the marketing (which is most people), have no idea there is still a place for their "wallpaper". I cant overstate how central to people's impression of WP this is, how central to the slow acceptance of WP7 this is. Addicts do not give up willingly. And people are addicted to their wallpaper. MS and phone manufacturers NEED to show them it's not only still there, but better than ever.

[techblitz]

I'm not saying Microsoft needs to say, "hey, look! we have an unlock screen!" I'm saying Microsoft needs to say, "hey, dont panic!!! we still have a place for your beautiful wallpaper that you're addicted to! Youre not going cold turkey! We're not putting you in rehab! Windows Phone still has it!

But you would not know that from ANY commercial Ive seen for WP -- what the commercials show is tiles, tiles tiles and only tiles (and at the same time doing a HORRIBLE job of showing what is so cool about live tiles, that they show RT updated info without even opening an app).

People whose only exposure to Windows Phone is through the marketing (which is most people), have no idea there is still a place for their "wallpaper". I cant overstate how central to people's impression of WP this is, how central to the slow acceptance of WP7 this is. Addicts do not give up willingly. And people are addicted to their wallpaper. MS and phone manufacturers NEED to show them it's not only still there, but better than ever.

Okay, I get it. I think I've seen ad from the first generation marketing tiles, but now I think they just mention them in a passing quip, like the new Lumia AT&T commercial. I don't know how much customization is important to individuals who don't have the phone. Sure, it's important to actual owners, but Microsoft need to focus on the beautiful tiles and the features of the OS to win over potential buyers

[AElephants]

Okay, I get it. I think I've seen ad from the first generation marketing tiles, but now I think they just mention them in a passing quip, like the new Lumia AT&T commercial. I don't know how much customization is important to individuals who don't have the phone. Sure, it's important to actual owners, but Microsoft need to focus n the b beauty and feature set of the OS to win over potential buyers

I agree. But at the same time, they have to assure people that its still got the elements that make them comfortable.

It would be like trying to sell people a shirt by saying, "look at this cool new fabric we invented" and only showing a close-up of the fabric, never zooming out to show what kind of shirt it is, what it looks like. Is it a polo? a t shirt? a button down, a pirate shirt?? who knows. Yes that fabric looks cool, but Im not going to buy a shirt without you reassuring me that its something Im comfortable wearing. What if it IS a pirate shirt? Id hate it!

But it's not like you cant do both in a commercial. So far all they have done is show tiles, tiles, tiles, and more tiles, and a peek inside the hubs. Thats not anywhere near enough.

Instead what they should do is show the unlock screen for a few seconds. show it with a drop dead gorgeous photo (like Apple did with the clownfish) -- then zoom in, and pan down to show the notification counts changing for a second or 2, then show the little bounce that the unlock screen makes for half a second (that shot ALONE would sell a million phones because it's a gorgeous, brilliant, FUN, playful feature) then a thumb flicks up the unlock screen to reveal the tiles....they've just made everyone in the world comfortable that, "hey, yeah, this isn't TOO different, I can still relate to this"....and they still have 25 seconds left of commercial left to do whatever they want.

But they aren't making people feel safe first, before they launch into all their very drastic changes. People do not accept drastic changes to what they are comfortable with. They only are willing to make changes that they can still relate to on a gut level.

If I take all the style you are accustomed to out of your shirt, dont tell you what kind of shirt it is (it could be a pirate shirt, it could be a women's blouse) and only show you that its a really cool new fabric. Are you going to buy it? No, because you dont feel safe.

It's that important.

[achmeingott]

I have a two desktops, a notebook, a netbook, a work laptop and a Windows phone. I'd imagine many, many people own more than one or two Windows devices. However I can't see many people owning more than two android devices at most (a phone and maybe a tablet). It just doesn't seem terribly feasible.

[techblitz]

I have a two desktops, a notebook, a netbook, a work laptop and a Windows phone. I'd imagine many, many people own more than one or two Windows devices. However I can't see many people owning more than two android devices at most (a phone and maybe a tablet). It just doesn't seem terribly feasible.

Android phone, yes, but they've barely penetrated the tablet market. I don't see people buying Android tablets in place of PCs anytime soon.

[AElephants]

Wow, you thought this through, haven't you!

It's what I do for a living, albeit not in the tech industry. It's my job to understand how & why people make buying decisions and how to make them buy things without ever saying a word to them. All your points are valid. They absolutely have to sell people on why live tiles are better, but that job becomes MUCH harder to do, when you dont first put them at ease. Show them they are still in safe, familiar territory. People have lived in "wallpaper & icon land" since --forever. For decades. All their lives. It's all they've ever known. WP is, so far, asking people to move OUT of that very familiar country "wallpaper & icon land" by showing them "big red and white square land" even though that country still has a wallpaper, theyre hiding it from everyone. People look, subconsciously think to themselves, this isnt right, thats not what a phone/computer/OS is supposed to look like. those squares are so much more boring than my fancy icons, where the hell is the background, no, thats scary" and tune out. Gotta make em feel safe first. But at least they finally have an attractive phone. Thats helped them get, what? 0.3 % of the market? (thats a guess, but you get the point). But I digress.

[techblitz]

It's what I do for a living, albeit not in the tech industry. It's my job to understand how & why people make buying decisions and how to make them buy things without ever saying a word to them. All your points are valid. They absolutely have to sell people on why live tiles are better, but that job becomes MUCH harder to do, when you dont first put them at ease. Show them they are still in safe, familiar territory. People have lived in "wallpaper & icon land" since --forever. For decades. All their lives. It's all they've ever known. WP is, so far, asking people to move OUT of that very familiar country "wallpaper & icon land" by showing them "big red and white square land" even though that country still has a wallpaper, theyre hiding it from everyone. People look, subconsciously think to themselves, this isnt right, thats not what a phone/computer/OS is supposed to look like. those squares are so much more boring than my fancy icons, where the hell is the background, no, thats scary" and tune out. Gotta make em feel safe first. But at least they finally have an attractive phone. Thats helped them get, what? 0.3 % of the market? (thats a guess, but you get the point). But I digress.

I assume you test and gauge market reaction to items? Your theory is well though out, I see where you're coming from!

[TechLheaStarr]

NO!!

I personally think that foolish. I actually LOVE Android and was devastated with having to switch to a Lumia Windows device, but the more I learned about it the more I loved it. The only downside to having windows phone is its so integrated that it makes it not convenient for you like ONLY being able to have music on your phone unless you connect it to Zune (smh) this is NOT good in my opinion. Also, Windows doesnt have a wide variety of apps in the market like "Candy Crush" and didnt have IG at first until Pictastic. Windows is the first device since my Palm Pre that I ever owned that doesn freeze or lag when you add a bunch of things to it . This I love, but as far as Android doing away with Windows NEVER. They got Blackberry out, but Corporate America MUST have a phone that is business savvy and looks professional and seeing that the new iOS 7 has turned business professionals device into a Candy Crush User Interface. I believe your going to see more business exec and corporate business owners purchasing Windows devices bc Windows has the ability to link devices to one another that share the same Windows OS just like iOS does. I literally had a customer that no longer wanted his device bc he updated to the iOS 7 and he hated all the colors and how the user interface was changed.

[Phases]

Interesting indeed, and from the one shot/mockup/whatever - it sure LOOKS appealing enough to look into again

[JacobV]

Windows isn't declining.